May 2nd, 2011
By Eric Letendre
WARNING:
This may not be an easy message for you to read. I am going to share some of my experiences that may upset you. It is NOT my intention to upset you. My intention is to make a point and I don’t think I can do it if I don’t share some unpleasant situations I’ve seen. You have been warned:
In the past two decades, as a dog trainer and former animal control officer, I have seen dogs kicked, choked, punched and beaten.
Most of the time when I saw a dog being handled roughly, it was at the hands of the last person you would think. It wasn’t someone on the street or in a backyard beating the dog. In fact, most of the time it was right out in the open. Sometimes the person choking the dog was teaching someone else to do the same.
You see, most of the harmful stuff that I’ve seen done to dogs was at the hands of a dog trainer.
Dog trainers, for years, have used harsh, outdated methods, and it’s scary that those methods are making a comeback because of certain TV shows and YouTube videos.
I’ve been a dog trainer through some interesting times. When I started, dog training was harsh and brutal. If the dog became aggressive, the training was never blamed – the dog always was.
In the mid 1990’s, training really started to change because of some very dedicated individuals, and for many dog trainers, they quickly converted from their old, harsh style training methods to the newer, more positive and MORE effective training style.
Many of the trainers that used to train the old harsh way felt very bad about the way they used to train and started to call themselves “All Positive Trainers.”
I think a lot of this was because of the guilt they felt about the way they had trained and trained others for years. The “All Positive” types became a force and the way dogs were trained changed dramatically and it swept through the nation.
Associations were formed and national conferences started. More and more trainers got on board with the more positive way to train, which was great for dogs and dog owners.
I believe wholeheartedly that dogs should be trained using positive methods but…
…I tend to get in trouble with the “All Positive” crowd because I will not go along that you should never do anything negative in dog training.
Let me explain:
Dog training is all about consequences. You have two types of consequences – positive and negative.
When you want your dog to keep doing a behavior, you use a positive consequence. The dog sits when we ask and we apply a positive consequence, treat, praise, toy, etc.
Now, when the dog jumps, steals, barks, begs, digs, or does any of the other behaviors that we don’t want, we can’t apply a positive consequence because that would just make the behavior stronger.
The “All Positive” crowd will tell you to ignore the behavior and this is where we tend to part ways. I believe that we need to get results and ignoring the behavior takes a lot of patience, and in my opinion, I rarely see the behavior go away by ignoring it.
I understand why the “All Positive” crowd does not want to use or teach negative consequences. Many of the trainers in the “All Positive” camp have seen a lot of the same horrors I have.
But as trainers, we are doing a disservice to our clients and the dog if we don’t get results. I use negative consequences to STOP the dog from doing a behavior that is unacceptable to us.
A negative consequence does NOT have to harm the dog. The problem is that many trainers do not know how to properly apply a negative consequence to a training situation. Four steps have to happen which I will explain to you:
If the above four steps don’t happen, problems will develop and the dog could suffer. I understand why the “All Positive” crowd stays away from any type of negative training. It takes an extremely skilled trainer to apply a negative consequence correctly.
It’s important to understand that there are NO side effects from doing positive training other than your timing may be off and your dog gets confused (which is why clickers are excellent training tools). There are MAJOR side effects when a negative consequence is used and not done properly.
A dog that is exposed repeatedly to some form of negative consequence that causes pain can become aggressive, withdrawn, fearful or confused and it is very sad to see this happen to a dog.
This brings me to the question that was asked of me on my Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/AmazingDogTrainingMan
Do I recommend electronic collars? My answer is a little complicated because I can’t say yes or no. I always take a “We’ll see” approach.
Let me explain…
Can electronic collars be effective – absolutely.
Can they cause harm – most definitely.
An electronic collar can be very helpful in some situations. There are basically two types of collars. The first type of collar operates without the trainer. For instance, there are electronic bark collars. The dog barks and the sound activates the correction from the collar. Another example is the underground containment type. If the dog gets too close to the boundary, the collar will activate and the dog is given the correction.
The second type is the hand held collar operated by the trainer. The hand held operated by the trainer can be a big problem. Even the best trainers in the world are sometimes off when it comes to timing. I have also seen people that think the hand held collar is like a TV remote. They simply press a button and stop bad behavior.
It does not work that way.
So when I am asked about electronic collars in a training situation, I first ask the person I am working with if they know the four steps to applying a negative consequence. No one has ever been able to answer the four steps (You can because you come here to read this blog).
After I explain the four steps, I ask the person if they would be able to apply the four steps every time the behavior happened. I focus a lot on #4 and discuss timing and how it effects their dog if their timing is off.
Usually the person can come to the conclusion that an electronic collar would not be good for them. I do think that the underground containment fences can be very effective because there is no human involvement.
The collar is not controlled by the trainer. The dog is given a warning every time he gets close to the fence, the timing is perfect, the consequence is big enough to stop the dog from going near the boundary, it happens every time and it has no association with the trainer.
Do I like using them or recommending them?
Not really, but I have seen a many dogs that have a much better life because of them. I also know that the underground electronic fences have saved a lot of dog’s lives. Without them, the dog would have run into the road and been hit.
When I have to choose, I would much rather see the fence being used than the dog getting hit by a car.
So, when I am asked if I use electronic collars, I don’t say yes or no. It really depends on the dog, the situation and the trainer. I don’t rule them out and I also don’t put one on the dog in the first training session.
In general, I almost never use them, but at the same time, I can’t say that they don’t have their place in training.
As stated earlier, I like to take a “We’ll see” type of attitude. Making snap or emotional decisions are not always the best. I like to think of the Zen story that was shared with me years ago:
A young boy in a village is given a horse on his 16th birthday as a gift by a traveler and all the villagers are happy for him. The Zen monk says, “We’ll see.” The boy falls off the horse and breaks his back and all of the villagers are sad for him.
The Zen monk says, “We’ll see.” A war erupts and all the young men go off to war – except the young boy, and all the villagers say he is oddly lucky. The Zen master says, “We’ll see.”
Eric Letendre is a professional dog trainer from the United States and has been training dogs for over 20 years, teaching regular, average, every-day owners all over the world how to get the training results they want as fast as possible. Eric is also the author of numerous reports, the E-Book “101 Ways to Improve Your Dog’s Behavior,” “The Amazing Dog Training Man Book,” and produced and stars in his DVD “Secrets of a Professional Dog Trainer.”
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Eric Letendre is a professional dog trainer from the United States. For more than 20 years, he has been developing dog training "hacks" that have worked for dog owners all over the world. Eric operates from a home office or a laptop while traveling and draws on his experience and passion for dog training to show others how to develop a dog that is truly “Man’s Best Friend”.
Eric is the author of numerous reports, the E-Book “101 Ways to Hack Your Dog’s Behavior,” “The Amazing Dog Training Man Book,” and produced and stars in his DVD “Secrets of a Professional Dog Trainer.”
I don’t even say “We’ll see” on shock collars. I can’t see one reason for it except possibly if you lived in an area that has rattlesnakes and your dog would not stay away from them or they didn’t scare him. I see people use the shock collar to teach their dog to “come” when called. How does that even make sense? And to walk nice by them on a leash? That’s bizarre. But I am passionate about what I do, have boundaries about what I will and will not use and stand up for it. No shock collars!
You are so wonderful! I’m glad I have your daily inspiration to keep making good choices with my dogs. It is difficult when you’re a lay person.
i use e-collars on regular basis. there is nothing wrong, if and only the trainer has the level of education and knowledge to properly use such tool. as a trainers we need to have a broad understanding of all possible ways or methods available. sure,
the most important thing is having the proper knowledge to incorporate any form of training. any way i do use them all the time and i link- em to just about anything(behavior). if you have any questions just drop me a line!!!
Hello, i have been following you for some time, and wanted to drop you a note to thank you for all your help. You have inspired me to open my own business as a dog trainer in Phoenix, AZ. I would like to know what you think about becoming certified, and how someone might go about it. Have you done it yourself, and what have the benifits been? Thanks for all your help, and i hope we can meet sometime in the future.
Dear Eric,
I never used an electronic collar although I think it would have shortened the time to teach my dog Cedric a Golden Retriever how to not act aggressive when we meet other dogs.I thought about it, but now I live in Switzerland and here, electronic collars and choke collars are forbidden.They all seem to think their dogs are very well behaved.Which in 99% of the cases is so.I went to a training course here and the method to curb the aggression towards other dogs was ‘hanging’ and the ‘don’t worry, it won’t kill him’.It worked with other dogs,but not with mine.So I am taking the Emma Parson’s approach.My dog , I am sure of it, has fear aggresion.I am a doctor ,for humans, so I can extend my knowledge and understand better some behaviours in animals.My point is that he is not aggressive to every dog.But I can’t find a pattern.I saw he is not aggresive towards ‘fixed’ middle or small size male dogs and towards middle or small size females.in fact if he is in a yard with a dog he likes, he let the dog have his toys and eat his food.He’s not much of an eater either.Anyway, I love him as if he were my child, and I am very sorry that because of his fear aggression I can’t take him with me wherever I go.I have to say that in Switzerland you are allowed to go with your dog in restaurants, hotels,trains, buses, etc.so it’s very hard for me not to be able to do thata anymore, anyway we take him whenever we go on vacation,we don’t leave him to a dog house or so.He is a child for me and my husband.Unfortunately of another species so, in some places not accepeted.Probably he would be if he were calmer and more well behave towards the other dogs.here dogs have a ‘royal’ treatment and you don’t have to be a millionaire to offer them that
I really appreciate what, to me, is your balanced approach to dog training — i.e., not ignoring the fact that negative consequences sometimes HAVE to be in the program!! — but also that they have to be managed very carefully. I had some friends in the “all positive” camp. Their dogs are obnoxious which the owners justify as — “just how dogs are,” it’s “how to love them-accept them as they are,” and “I can’t do anything about it so I’ll justify why I’m’ not doing anything about it.” They’re not friends anymore. I have a very hyper, 1 yr old Shih Tzu who goes into frenzied friendly so fast there’s no space left in his little brain to “hear” any commands. I got an electric collar thinking I could do THAT fast enough to break his fixed focus but — there’s so much judgment against using shock collars AND, as you said, you need to use it at exactly the right time, which means you’ve got to have the remote(gun) in your hands and ready . . . which makes everybody hate you. I also realized that the timing is crucial and it’s really hard to hit it right. So — I’m not using it. I’m just working to be ready to use the other methods, like turning my dog away from his desired target and not letting him get the “reward” of attention until he calms down. It’s just that this then becomes the only thing that’s happening — I can’t greet the other person because all attention has to be on Huck. I’m joining a training class where I hope he’ll get enough practice that it will stick when we’re out in the world.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience.
Eric, I appreciate your entry on electronic collars. I grew up in CT and have lived in SW Florida for several years. My last Lab was off-leash when he was killed by an alligator – worst day of my life. He was extremely well trained and very used to being off-leash; it was obviously my fault as I ‘assumed’ that they were not where we were – now I recognize that wherever there is fresh water in Florida there always the potential for an alligator in waiting. You might post one day that alligators just don’t take small dogs; mine was a 75 lb Lab athlete and he had no chance. I heard the yelp and splash and even dove in after him but they go deep immediately and there usually is nothing you can do – it happens so crazy quick.
Having said that my current Lab male is an even better athlete and he runs with me every day in a somewhat rural area. There are freshwater drainage canals everywhere in SW Florida including where we live. Sometimes when he gets hot he will just put his head and tail down and run for a canal – he is well trained and on command off-leash but when a Lab is hot and knows there’s water around it just doesn’t matter. I can’t put him at risk like that so it’s either a leash all the time or an electronic collar. So, I bought a Sport Dog 1/4 mile range e-collar and it goes on him whenever he is off-leash and there is the potential of fresh water around. He hears the beep when I arm it and he runs over to me with his head down for me to put it on – he relates that collar with action. And he looooves action. The first couple of times he was hot and did the head down routine after I had signaled come I had to zap him pretty good. (I tested it on myself just to see for myself how bad the zap was and a 1 is a mosquito bite, a 3 a horsefly bite, and a 5 will stop you in your tracks). I only had to use the 5 on him once and now 2 years later I almost never bother to bring the remote.
I believe I am exceptional owner and the last thing I want is to be cruel to my dog but I never want any dog to be potentially put in a grave situation. I have found the e-collar to be incredibly effective but recognize that it could be abused. I recommend it only to what I consider to be responsible pet owners and only for specific issues. I personally believe in the Jan Fennell teaching method and as an active Florida Labrador Retriever Rescue volunteer I promote her teaching method as an effective way of getting fostered dogs to acclimate to a new environment with as little drama as possible. I am not familiar with yours but I assume you’re methods are similar.
By the way, I have exclusively fed my dogs a somewhat unorthadox version of a raw diet for 10 1/12 years now with phenomenal success and have saved many dogs from being surrendered due to the costs of a western medicine style Vet treating the symptoms of allergies rather than the underlying cause. If you ever want to discuss that I am happy to share what I’ve learned it and clear up many of the misconceptions. I can feed a 75 lb dog a raw diet for about $15/week and that dog will have amazing health and about 10% of the shedding. Best of luck to you.
Thanks Todd. You make some great points. Thanks for sharing.
Any electric collar fan should try one on him/herself. And then “we’ll see”.
Haha – Great point Carine!
I admit when i first saw your site I was leery…..I’ve seen too many “would be dog trainers” who advocate e collars for every dog NOT! I have friends who do field training with e collars at times…but they know how to use them. I don’t like electronic underground fencing for dogs….unless a life and death issue……anything can come in the dog’s yard!
I’ve alwys had rescue Dobermans, don’t use an e collar , I train positively BUT you can’t train “all positive” these people are kidding themselves. I use Sheila Booth’s “Schutzhund Obedience…Training in Drives” because it’s alot of fun…….and “Playtraining Your Dog” by P G Burnham. and am fortunate..a good friend is a positive dog trainer who field trains her goldens…….at times using an e collar.
PS To Todd in Fla I also feed “raw” , have for close to 2 years…..Dillon..my Dobe, has his own freezer! V B G using the proper percentages per weight, my dobe at 27″ is 72 lbs has a gorgeous coat, tons of energy, and gorgeous teeth! And I vaxx rarely…only the required rabies….and 3 year.
Hi Eric,
I commend you for your courage and diplomacy in tackling and discussing a sensitive topic.
It’s my opinion that the four modes of learning/motivation (i.e. positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement, positive punishment and negative punishment) need to be communicated and taught to humans much, much, more than is currently done.
Personally, I don’t believe there is such a thing as 100% positive training – I think it’s a myth. Ignoring the dog or withholding a treat for unwanted behavior is negative punishment.
I personally avoid positive punishment in our training. With my dog, our environment, and our goals this is easy to do.
As you know, e-collars can be used as positive punishment or negative reinforcement depending on the circumstances/dog/training goals.
Thanks very much for your informative blog, I always look forward to reading your posts.
Jeff and Mojo in San Antonio
Dear Jeff and Mojo
Great comments. I fear that the reason that many pet parents don’t know about the four quadrants is because many trainers don’t know about the four quadrants.
Sure they know how they were taught sit, down, stay and know how to show their clients sit, down, stay.
But based on some of my observations, I don’t believe many of them have put in the continuing education needed to go beyond sit, down, stay.
They haven’t studied psychology, behavior and the like.
I watched a trainer’s dog perform all sorts of neat tricks, then watched that same trainer force a face to face meeting between two dogs.
“The negative consequence can’t be associated with trainer”. Maybe it’s a stupid question and I’m just reading this wrong but how can this be when the trainer/owner is the one applying the negative consequence?
Great question Jason. If you put a prong collar on your dog and start yanking it your dog will associate the consequence with you. If your dog has an electronic collar on to stay in the yard and gets to close to the fence the negative consequence will occur and you could be miles away. Your dog would not associate the consequence with you. To many negative consequences associated with the owner does not develop a good, stable relationship between dog and owner.
Make sense?
Hi all. I was just going to ask the same question as Jason. I do agree entirely with everything you wrote Eric, and the rules of applying negative consequences, but aside from E collars, what can we use?
It seems natural to apply negative consequences, most animal living in social groups will face harsh punishment for not respecting that group’s rules, leading to a lot of violent corrections.
As trainers we don’t want to be violent and enter a fear based relationship with our dogs, but we do want to get our point across sometimes. How do we do that aside from using E collars ?
Kevin and Filouze, 1year old husky doberman mix